Everything about the stills says IBWO to me except that flared tail. There really is no way to make a diamond-shaped woodpecker tail out of that. I have to say I cannot think of a realistic alternative. If the tail eliminates the IBWO (something I have not yet accepted), it also eliminates the easiest alternatives of PIWO and RHWO. I do not make a raptor out of the bird, if for no other reason because of the neck. The wing also lacks the prominent "wrist" of the raptor. The tail is anhinga-like, but absolutely nothing else about the bird is consistent with an anhinga. It is clear that both the top and the bottom of the wing have white trailing edges. That is a tough thing to match.
I am still going with most probably IBWO, despite the inconsistent tail. Perhaps it has a damaged or molting tail?
Everything about the stills says IBWO to me except that flared tail. There really is no way to make a diamond-shaped woodpecker tail out of that. I have to say I cannot think of a realistic alternative. If the tail eliminates the IBWO (something I have not yet accepted), it also eliminates the easiest alternatives of PIWO and RHWO. I do not make a raptor out of the bird, if for no other reason because of the neck. The wing also lacks the prominent "wrist" of the raptor. The tail is anhinga-like, but absolutely nothing else about the bird is consistent with an anhinga. It is clear that both the top and the bottom of the wing have white trailing edges. That is a tough thing to match.
I am still going with most probably IBWO, despite the inconsistent tail. Perhaps it has a damaged or molting tail?
I see a diamond shape tail in pictures 5, 6 and 9.
What worries me more than the tail is the abrupt end to the white trailing edge.
This is almost certainly a woodpecker based on the flight coupled with shape (I've never seen a raptor or Anhinga fly in this manner).
The Red-headed Woodpecker has a relatively defined, shorter area of white on the trailing edge of the wing compared to the IBWO. National Geographic demonstrates this well. From the photos this limited white area is visible. Even compared to the Luneau video there appears to be less white on the trailing edge and the shape of the white is different. Sorry to get into such detail but those are my thoughts (unfortunately!) at this time.
Is there any way to purchase a DVD of the presentation from Cornell or elsewhere?
To my knowledge none of the Singer Tract imagery, either motion pictures or stills, is available for sale. Particular stills can be found in various web pages and books. For example, a still and a film frame of an ivory-bill in flight can be seen at Cornell's ivory-bill site:
Regarding blunt or fan shaped tail, in addition to the photo MMNY and others "discovered" in the LSU archives posted above previously, there are two photos in that same collection of Ivory-bills in flight (identified by Tanner) that show blunt looking tails (or at least not tapering or triangular in shape). Also, we need to remember that when the tail comes into view this bird had just made a sharp turn to its right and is maneuvering (I think you can see the tail constantly adjusting which would support the need to have a fanned tail, regardless of species). Some have suggested that the bird may have spotted Mike's sudden movement to get his camera in position and veered away, otherwise it would have flown by near him (who knows, but the bird clearly makes a sudden adjustment in trajectory).
Regarding the bill (which one would think would always be obvious), all three of these archived photos show birds with heads, but no visible bills. Regarding the lack of apparent white along the leading wing edges in almost all frames (however see below), this video is seriously backlight and so that is not surprising (see the classic picture of the 1930s female with wings fully extended where the white leading edge of underwing is barely visible and this was a relatively close bird to the photographer). Neither of these issues are helpful in resolving the identification of this bird.
Anyway, with the exception of the classic photo of a bird in flight, this mini-discussion illustrates that the 1930s Cornell Ivory-bill Team took lousy pictures of Ivory-bills back then too. So nothing new today on that score (of course they also took no doubt amazing pictures of ivory-bills that has to still be duplicated today).
The bird in Mike's Nov. 5 video is no doubt a woodpecker, but if you look at individual frames, one could suggest some kind of raptor (Mississippi Kite, Northern Harrier early on), a swift or maybe a falcon, perhaps a duck, and even may be a spotted sandpiper, in addition to being one of three candidate woodpecker species. It is important in my opinion to look at the film as a whole and here the fact that this is a woodpecker comes into "focus."
So we are left in my opinion with Pileated, Red-headed, and maybe Ivory-billed Woodpecker as contenders. We need to figure out what is in the majority of frames that is inconsistent "consistently" with Pileated and Red-headed first before we can go any further. The placement of the white as far as we can tell seems to eliminate Pileated right off the bat and to my knowledge no experienced observers are seriously considering Pileated, but not sure we can clearly eliminate the possibility either. That said, of the side-by-side comparisons I've seen thus far, they all seem to show consistently narrower and longer wings relative to the body for Mike's bird when wings are fully extended than we would expect from a Pileated.
I'm still not sure what to expect from a frame-by-frame breakdown of a video of Red-headed undergoing extended flight as almost all the footage I've seen thus far are of birds hawking for flying insects. While instructive, I really would like to see a video of an extended flight before I say any more other than to say I would expect Red-headed wings to appear relatively broad and short relative to the body (perhaps similar to Pileated, relatively, but perhaps not).
The white that appears in some of Mike's Nov. 5 frames would seem to be a slam-dunk at minimum for not being able to eliminate Red-headed from consideration. In fact, many knowledgeable commentators have already concluded that this bird has to be a Red-headed based on some of these later frames. Perhaps, but when it appears most obvious, the white is extensive down the upper half of the tail which would be inconsistent with Red-headed and reminds me a bit of a Northern Wheatear's tail. In fact, like a Wheatear I think I'm seeing what appears to be a dark median mark cutting into the white in the upper tail. In addition, the white when it appears in one frame disappears in the following frame. Not sure what is going on here, but I'm suspicious of a lighting artifact. There could be white on the rump that only appears at a specific angle where (as with the wings), the light shines through the feathers (which may be consistent with the tail feathers but I would think is inconsistent for the rump as this area covers the body and light shouldn't be shining through). There also could be bleed from the white secondaries into the rump area extending into the upper tail (which would be consistent for both species), or who knows. Regardless visible white in the rump area on the surface does not support Ivory-bill, but as suggested above the circumstances underwhich we see "light" color is perhaps not consistent with what should be on a Red-headed either.
As mentioned above is the lack of obvious white in the leading edge in most frames, but "light on the leading edge of the underwing may in fact appear in earlier frames as the wings are held extended lateral to the body (and perhaps slightly above the horizontal), where the bird appears most kite/harrier like. It is in these frames also that the extent of white in the underwing, both leading and trailing edges appear to be the least "truncated." Also note the very obvious black wing-tip in these and all subsequent frames early in the video when the underwings are in view. I await more detailed assessments on whether or not these views suggest that the white in the underwings in these early frames is still too truncated, consistent with Red-headed and not with Ivory-bill, but later frames do suggest more truncated white secondaries in the upperwing at least. Again is this due to a lighting artifact?
I await more detailed assessments on whether or not these earlier frames, suggesting much more extensive white in the underwings compared with later frames, along with wing shape, are enough to suggest Red-headed Woodpecker is not a good fit for the available evidence. Right now in my opinion Red-headed cannot be eliminated as a possibility, but patience and time will tell whether Red-headed is the best fit for the available evidence.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the white on the tail being inconsistent with red-head. But in any case the "white" is pretty unclear to me, just a suggestion as far as I can see.
I agree that the video of November 5 is most consistent with a woodpecker. Further, the aspect ratio of the wing (the ratio of wing chord to wing length) suggests to me IBWO rather than any other North American Woodpecker. That is, I see a long, narrow wing which is consistent with an IBWO but not with a PIWO or Melanerpes woodpecker (eg Redheaded or red bellied). The poor resolution of the video makes judgements about body shape difficult, but I still feel the bird appears more long and lean than short and chubby. That, too, is more consistent with an IBWO than other woodpeckers. Still, the tail is problematic to me.
I am willing to accept that the bird in the video may be something other than a woodpecker, but the proposed alternatives so far - a raptor, a wheateater, a duck - are less convincing to me than a woodpecker. I am also a bit concerned about the complete lack of a sense of scale here: suggestions range from a wheateater or small woopecker to a bald eagle. The arguments among those alternatives have been on field marks, not size.
That really is about as much as I think I will ever be able to say. In terms of my day job (as a prosecutor, for those who do not know), I think there is probable cause that the bird in the video may be an IBWO (that is most probably among many alternatives) but there is not evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. That returns me to my original disclaimer upon joining this discussion: I do not think this is the video which will establish the IBWO to be extant.
That said, however, I think this video is a huge step in the right direction. I congratulate Mr. Collins on a real innovation in the IBWO search: observing from the treetops is a great idea (though too dangerous for my "ample" frame). By judging the relative frequency of IBWO feeding sign on limbs fallen from the canopy to the feeding sign in situ on tree boles near the ground, I would have to conclude that IBWOs spend most of their time in the canopy (as Tanner stated). One can cover much more area on the ground, but we may be looking for a very rare event while we are down there: that is, the small proportion of the time IBWOs spend below the secondary canopy. Time spent in the canopy in a hot zone may ultimately prove more useful than time on the ground. I intend to watch the Fishcrow site with interest for future videos.
there are two photos in that same collection of Ivory-bills in flight (identified by Tanner) that show blunt looking tails (or at least not tapering or triangular in shape).
Could you link to those photos or reference a published source? I am not sure I know which you are referring to.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the white on the tail being inconsistent with red-head. But in any case the "white" is pretty unclear to me, just a suggestion as far as I can see.
Sorry to be unclear on my point regarding the "light" we see on the rump and half of the tail in some frames possibly inconsistent with Red-headed. Regardless, I agree it is pretty unclear what is going on here. What I was trying to suggest is the extent of white down the tail given the angle does not appear consistent to me for a red-headed and add to that what appears to be a black line up the middle of the white on the tail. Also, if white is only showing in areas where light is going through feathers and not the body, then no white in the rump should be seen. Similarly, this is the explanation necessary if this is a Red-headed and why we see no white on the underpartes. At least that is what I'm suggesting for the time being and why individual frames aren't likely to resolve this idenitifcation, but a frame-by-frame analysis, and the film in its entirety might.
That is certainly getting close to the Collins video.
gdebusk:
Yes, that is one of the ones I was referring to. The others are at the same site, though I don't remember the numbers of the other one not already mentioned by MMNY. MMNY already linked to the third photo of a bird in flight, which is one of a series of four pictures with at least one ivory-bill visible in each one, but that Tanner did not mention. In each of these photos, I keep thinking why aren't these pigeons instead of woodpeckers, to add another impression to the ones I listed previously.
I don't know if a Red-headed could never have a "big" tail looking like this in extended flight, but the pictures I have seen so far of hawking birds do not match up well with what we see in the majority of Collins' frames in my opinion (but the birds are doing something different than undergoing an extended flight). Again a more indepth analysis is needed before reaching any conclusions (including a conclusion that we just won't be able to resolve this).
thanks for looking and linking these up for folks here.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the white on the tail being inconsistent with red-head. But in any case the "white" is pretty unclear to me, just a suggestion as far as I can see.
Your second link is what concerns me. It' just a hunch based on RHWO observation but the clearly-defined line between black and white on the underwing appears very similar to the Collins NOV 5 video. In the very limited IBWO stills/video we have available, the white doesn't seem to have such a pattern and seems to extend further along the trailing edge. Of course that doesn't conclude anything for sure. I hope to be proven wrong. Maybe Mike will get the clincher later this season.
I had moved into the RHWO camp on the 11/5 Pearl video for a number of reasons, mostly the apparently truncated white on the wings. Bob O'Brien has posted something on Frontiers of ID and a comparison on his own website that sway me back at least to the middle. The wing ratios seem more consistent with IBWO, although it's a close call and a small sample, and to my eyes, in this comparison at least, the white on the wings appears to be more extensive than would be consistent with RHWO. He also focused on a frame that I noticed early on, in which one would think the white on the belly would be visible if it were a RHWO. I'm sure there will be more analysis, and I look forward to reading it.
I don't believe there is anymore need for vacillation on the Nov. 5 video. Mike Collins has posted 3 clips of Red-headed Woodpeckers and I understand that Bill Pulliam will be posting some comparison shots from video he took this morning also. These should speak for themselves for how to best wade through videos where the subject flying bird is not inherently obvious. I like many others assumed the bird was distant and large, and that Red-headed Woodpeckers would not give a long and narrow winged appearance, and have learned it appears that neither assumption was valid.
A good learning experience and thanks to Mike Collins and others out there continuing forward.
With Mike Collins reporting that he is suspending his research in LA, the Cornell team suspending its search and the Auburn team already having wrapped up, what major searches can we follow?
It seems the IBWO is going to left to go it alone. Maybe that is good, maybe that is bad.
Q: Is anyone aware of individuals or groups searching the White River NWR?
It is largely up to the independents now. I plan to resume searching in southern Louisiana next year. Others are also quietly conducting searches in La. However, these are largely on private land. Large areas of potential habitat are on private land, and these landowners often do not want birders to intrude. Of course there are still plenty of opportunities to search on public land. We seem to be getting back to the mode that instigated this most recent "rediscovery," in which small groups of independent searchers, like Gallagher and Harrison, followed up on local reports or searched promising areas. The difference now is that we need clear imagery.
Snowy I am planning to resume searching in Wattensaw, Cache river NWR and ocassionally White river NWR in the next few weeks. The leaves are almost all down now and the water levels are slightly receding. We have had some horrible flooding down here in Arkansas.
As always anyone who has some free time is more than welcome to come down. I would be glad to show them some good areas ,etc.
Just a note to our members to check out our links section. We have just added a new one - Birdviewing.com which is owned by our member Snowy1: http://www.ibwo.net/index.php?categoryid=30
Not only is it a great resource to find images of woodpeckers and other birds there is an ivory-bill section as well!
Thanks Don. Yes, the IBWO section is updated when possible and certainly if anyone out there would like things posted I'd be happy to do so. For example the Nolin videos are quite large but the site can handle that sort of media. Always open to suggestions. The rest of the site has just been overhauled to handle all your other bird photos, and there is a searchable database (although we're still reclassifying many of the 3000 existing photos). No Ivorybill submitted as of yet! One day...
I came across some very interesting photos today that can be retrieved online from Cornell's Library. There are several, old and striking color photographs from the Singer Tract, including photos of male and female Ivorybills, feeding sign and members of the research team. Some of the photos can only be viewed as thumbnails, but many can be enlarged. This is the first time that I've seen a few of these photos. And it's the first time that I've seen some of them in color!
2. Then, use the ADVANCED SEARCH feature to search for ANY of these words:
ivorybill or ivory-bill or ivorybilled or woodpecker
Note, you should enter your keywords and leave spaces. An "OR" will be automatically inserted between each word. Again, as of this writing, the search retrieves 75 images, and many or most of them are related to the Ivorybill.
I noticed that in one b&w photo, there is a bird on the left side of a trunk that I think is a Pale-billed Woodpecker, mislabeled as an Ivory-bill; the toes are right for Campephilus, but the feathers aren't right for Ivory-bill.
There is a photo of a male Ivorybill feeding young that's interesting to compare to the similar photo you may have seen here in VIREO:
Very interesting. I should mention that the color images from the Singer Tract are colorized versions of original black-and-white images. To my knowledge only one original color image from the Singer Tract has emerged. It can be found here:
There is invaluable information in many of these images, some of which I indeed have never seen before. Image 45, for example, shows that the tail of an ivory-bill can appear very different than shown in the more familiar IBWO flight image (image 1).
I should also note that there are other Singer Tract images posted on the site. However, they do not seem to be organized into a single collection but must be located using the search engine (type in "James Tanner," for example).
While some of these images do look colorized, many of them are taken from color glass slides. Note the description "Lantern Slide" in the left hand column, although this description is not always correct. For example, there are multiple errors, which should speak for themselves, here:
I wonder whether the oddly colored images are taken from old colorized prints rather than the original slides. Whatever the case, I'm very glad they've been reproduced, since as Fang observed, they contain a trove of information, and it's great to be able to enlarge them.
Using other phrases, such as "Arthur Allen," will turn up additional images. Some of the slides from the Tanner collection, such as the series of images of J.J. Kuhn with Sonny Boy (which are quite stunning in color) do not seem to have been digitized, or don't show up under the obvious search terms. The organization and tagging leave something to be desired.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fangsheath
Very interesting. I should mention that the color images from the Singer Tract are colorized versions of original black-and-white images. To my knowledge only one original color image from the Singer Tract has emerged. It can be found here:
There is invaluable information in many of these images, some of which I indeed have never seen before. Image 45, for example, shows that the tail of an ivory-bill can appear very different than shown in the more familiar IBWO flight image (image 1).
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